03/19/2001 01:05 PM House RES
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 19, 2001
1:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Drew Scalzi, Co-Chair
Representative Hugh Fate, Vice Chair
Representative Joe Green
Representative Mike Chenault
Representative Lesil McGuire
Representative Gary Stevens
Representative Mary Kapsner
Representative Beth Kerttula
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Beverly Masek, Co-Chair
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 63
"An Act relating to electronic application for and issuance of
licenses, permits, and tags issued by the Department of Fish and
Game; relating to violations regarding a license, permit, or tag
applied for or issued electronically; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 63(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 72(FIN)
"An Act relating to 'take-a-child-hunting' seasons for big
game."
- FAILED TO MOVE HCS CSSB 72(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 137
"An Act relating to records of veterans of the armed forces; and
providing for an effective date."
- MOVED HB 137 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 63
SHORT TITLE:ELECTRONIC FISH & GAME LICENSURE
SPONSOR(S): RLS BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
01/16/01 0096 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
01/16/01 0096 (H) FSH, RES, FIN
01/16/01 0096 (H) FN 1: ZERO(DFG)
01/16/01 0096 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/12/01 (H) FSH AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/12/01 (H) Moved Out of Committee
02/12/01 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
02/14/01 0314 (H) FSH RPT 3DP 1NR
02/14/01 0314 (H) DP: COGHILL, SCALZI, WILSON;
NR: DYSON
02/14/01 0314 (H) FN1: ZERO(DFG)
02/14/01 0314 (H) REFERRED TO RESOURCES
02/21/01 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/21/01 (H) Heard & Held
MINUTE(RES)
03/19/01 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: SB 72
SHORT TITLE:TAKE A CHILD HUNTING SEASON
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) KELLY
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/06/01 0288 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/06/01 0288 (S) RES, FIN
02/07/01 0301 (S) COSPONSOR(S): WILKEN,
THERRIAULT
02/12/01 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/12/01 (S) Moved CS(RES) Out of
Committee
02/12/01 (S) MINUTE(RES)
02/13/01 0354 (S) RES RPT CS 3DP 3NR SAME TITLE
02/13/01 0354 (S) DP: TORGERSON, TAYLOR, KELLY;
02/13/01 0354 (S) NR: PEARCE, LINCOLN, ELTON
02/13/01 0354 (S) FN1: ZERO(DFG)
02/23/01 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE
532
02/23/01 (S) -- Meeting Postponed to
2/26/01--
02/26/01 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE
532
02/26/01 (S) Moved CSSB 72(FIN) Out of
Committee
MINUTE(FIN)
02/26/01 0500 (S) FIN RPT CS 7DP 2NR SAME TITLE
02/26/01 0500 (S) DP: DONLEY, KELLY, GREEN,
AUSTERMAN,
02/26/01 0500 (S) WILKEN, WARD, LEMAN; NR:
HOFFMAN, OLSON
02/26/01 0500 (S) FN1: ZERO(DFG)
02/28/01 (S) RLS AT 10:30 AM FAHRENKAMP
203
02/28/01 0535 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 2OR 2/28/01
02/28/01 0539 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
02/28/01 0539 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
02/28/01 0539 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING
UNAN CONSENT
02/28/01 0539 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB
72(FIN)
02/28/01 0539 (S) PASSED Y16 N2 A1 E1
02/28/01 0539 (S) LINCOLN NOTICE OF
RECONSIDERATION
02/28/01 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
03/01/01 0560 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD
READING
03/01/01 0560 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 1
UNAN CONSENT
03/01/01 0561 (S) AM NO 1 FAILED Y5 N10 E4 A1
03/01/01 0561 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD
READING
03/01/01 0561 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y14
N1 E4 A1
03/01/01 0562 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
03/01/01 0562 (S) VERSION: CSSB 72(FIN)
03/07/01 (H) RES AT 2:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/07/01 (H) <Bill Rescheduled to 3/12/01>
03/09/01 0508 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
03/09/01 0508 (H) RES
03/12/01 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/12/01 (H) Heard & Held
03/12/01 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/19/01 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 137
SHORT TITLE:RECORDS OF VETERANS
SPONSOR(S): SP CMTE ON MILITARY & VETERANS' AFFAIRS
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/23/01 0410 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/23/01 0410 (H) MLV, RES
02/27/01 (H) MLV AT 3:30 PM CAPITOL 120
02/27/01 (H) Moved Out of Committee
02/27/01 (H) MINUTE(MLV)
03/07/01 0497 (H) MLV RPT 6DP
03/07/01 0498 (H) DP: HAYES, GREEN, KOTT,
MASEK,
03/07/01 0498 (H) CISSNA, CHENAULT
03/07/01 0498 (H) FN1: ZERO(DNR)
03/19/01 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
KEVIN BROOKS, Director
Division of Administrative Services
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
PO Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99811-5526
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained HB 63, Version C.
KRISTOPHER KNAUSS, Staff
to Senator Pete Kelly
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 518
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke on behalf of the sponsor of SB 72.
GORDY WILLIAMS, Legislative Liaison
Office of the Commissioner
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
PO Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of SB 72 and answered
questions.
CAROL CARROLL, Director
Division of Support Services
Department of Natural Resources (DNR);
Director
Administrative Services Division
Department of Military & Veterans' Affairs (DMVA)
400 Willoughby Avenue
Fifth floor
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 137.
SHARON YOUNG, State Recorder
Division of Support Services
Department of Natural Resources
550 West Seventh Avenue, Suite 1210
Anchorage, Alaska 99501-3564
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 137.
ACTION NARRATIVE
[Due to technical difficulties, the first couple of minutes of
the meeting were not recorded. The following was reconstructed
from the log notes.]
CO-CHAIR DREW SCALZI called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:05 p.m. Representatives Fate,
McGuire, Green, Stevens, and Scalzi were present at the call to
order. Representatives Chenault, Kapsner, and Kerttula arrived
as the meeting was in progress.
HB 63 - ELECTRONIC FISH & GAME LICENSURE
[Taping difficulties continued, and the following was
reconstructed from the log notes.]
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 63, "An Act relating to electronic application
for and issuance of licenses, permits, and tags issued by the
Department of Fish and Game; relating to violations regarding a
license, permit, or tag applied for or issued electronically;
and providing for an effective date."
KEVIN BROOKS, Director, Division of Administrative Services,
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G) came before the
committee to discuss the proposed committee substitute (CS),
Version C.
[The tape recording begins at this point.]
TAPE 01-21, SIDE A
Number 0001
MR. BROOKS mentioned working with Representative Masek's office
[on the new language of Version C], which he said was an
improvement. Mr. Brooks explained:
The concern was that we have a situation with our
vendors that they're either going to get a commission
under the provisions set forth in statute now, or else
they would get a ... per-transaction fee, but not be
able to get both. And I think the new language is
very clear in that manner.
Number 0098
REPRESENTATIVE FATE made a motion to adopt the proposed CS
[Version C, 22-GH1070\C, Utermohle, 3/7/01] as a work draft.
There being no objection, Version C was before the committee.
Number 0123
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS mentioned a friend in Kodiak who sells
licenses; the friend had said he would not be selling the high-
end licenses such as for bear hunts, but only the fishing
licenses. Representative Stevens asked Mr. Brooks if he thought
[the language in Version C] would be a disincentive to vendors
to stay in the business.
MR. BROOKS replied that out of an estimated 600,000 pieces of
stock sold, 8,000 pieces were sold [electronically]. Therefore,
he did not foresee a significant loss of vendor business because
of electronic licensing; instead, electronic licensing would be
a complement to it. In regard to speculating whether the
higher-end sales would be predominately by vendor or by
electronic means, Mr. Brooks said it would be a matter of
customer preference. He stated that there are 1,500 vendors
statewide, and 20 percent of those are responsible for 80
percent of the sales.
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked Mr. Brooks to describe the
incentives to the vendors.
MR. BROOKS answered that the current vendor compensation
provisions are 5 percent of the receipts, plus $1 per item sold.
He said there were approximately "$1.2 million in retained
commissions to 5 percent." He recalled that there was
approximately $700,000 in additional vendor compensation of $1
per item. Mr. Brooks said ADF&G paid out nearly $2 million in
vendor commissions. He added that the vendors were making money
by outfitting the people buying the licenses in their stores,
not from the sale of the licenses themselves.
Number 0435
REPRESENTATIVE FATE asked Mr. Brooks if Version C would put some
of the vendors in a "no man's land," trying to do it, but not
making the 5 percent, so that it just becomes a service, and a
nuisance, at that.
MR. BROOKS responded that it was that type of analysis that
brought ADF&G to [electronic licensing], because there are many
"marginal" vendors who don't sell much. He pointed out that
many of those vendors are in remote areas, so ADF&G figured that
if the information is put out on the Internet, more people would
have access to a license.
Number 0539
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked Mr. Brooks how much 5 percent of a
high-end license would equal.
MR. BROOKS offered an example of a person from Europe buying a
license for $1,000, 5 percent of which would equal $50.
REPRESENTATIVE FATE moved to report CSHB 63 [version 22-
GH1070\C, Utermohle, 3/7/01] out of committee with individual
recommendations [and the accompanying zero fiscal note]. There
being no objection, CSHB 63(RES) was moved out of the House
Resources Standing Committee.
SB 72-TAKE A CHILD HUNTING SEASON
Number 0675
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced the next order of business would be CS
FOR SENATE BILL NO. 72(FIN), "An Act relating to 'take-a-child-
hunting' seasons for big game."
KRISTOPHER KNAUSS, Staff to Senator Pete Kelly, Alaska State
Legislature, came forth on behalf of Senator Kelly, sponsor of
the bill. He stated that since the last time the House
Resources Standing Committee met, a proposed House committee
substitute (CS) [Version B, 22-LS0084\B, Utermohle, 3/15/01] had
been drafted that hopefully answers questions that were asked.
He said a legal opinion has also been drafted dealing with the
constitutionality of the bill, regarding whether it is special
legislation.
Number 0745
CO-CHAIR SCALZI referred to a letter written in support of this
bill by Allison Magby, an eighth-grader at Golden View Middle
School in Anchorage.
Number 0825
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if this bill applies to bowhead
whales and whether there was any analysis done on this.
MR. KNAUSS replied that it would not apply.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if this has been verified from the
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G).
MR. KNAUSS said no, they haven't received an official statement
from [ADF&G].
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if this bill creates a preference
for sport hunters over subsistence users.
MR. KNAUSS deferred this question to [ADF&G].
Number 0920
REPRESENTATIVE FATE referred to a question from the last
meeting; he asked if there would be any conflict between bow
hunters and [other] hunters, since bow hunting is usually an
earlier season.
MR. KNAUSS said his understanding, based on discussions with the
[ADF&G] and Board [of Game], is that there would be no conflict.
Number 0985
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN indicated he wanted further clarification
on how there will not be conflict between bow hunters and other
hunters.
MR. KNAUSS asked if he was talking about "with the regular
season".
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said, "Or with the early season." He
mentioned that [this bill] would have kids between 8-17 "out
there" with a gun.
MR. KNAUSS stated that the Board of Game would establish the
actual season so that there would be no conflict. But he was
not sure how the Board of Game would do this.
[The meeting stopped for a few minutes due to technical
difficulties.]
Number 1131
REPRESENTATIVE FATE noted that [Version B] clarifies a question
the committee had regarding the legality of the child's or
adult's "taking the game and doing the actual pulling of that
trigger." He said this new language is found in lines 10-11.
[That language read: "The adult, parent, stepparent or legal
guardian who accompanies the child may only assist the child in
taking big game."]
MR. KNAUSS commented that the bill's intent is not to address
the method or area that [the season] pertains to, but is to
address a season.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI reiterated that the bill is leaving it up to the
Board [of Game] to determine the season, and that this bill is
allowing the board to make an additional seasonal change to
incorporate "take-a-child-hunting".
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated that he went hunting with his father
when he was young. However, the idea of a special season to do
this never came up. He said, "I had to go out there and compete
with the big guys just like everyone else, and I coveted the
opportunity to hunt with my dad." He asked, however, whether
this bill makes special dispensations for this group [children
between 8-17 years]. If so, he asked if it is possible that
another dispensation will be made for another group. He stated
that having a [special season], especially in the front half of
the season, creates a further impediment to the normal hunting
operation. This makes the animals aware that "there are guns
out there and things happen." Consequently, he said, he has
some real concerns about the bill.
Number 1342
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE commented that a lingering concern is
that much discretion is being given to the Board of Game without
any sideboards. [The bill] is trusting that issues such as
sustained yield, subsistence, and bowhead whales will all be
addressed [by the Board of Game], without [the legislature's]
certainty that this will happen. She said she wouldn't object
to this bill's moving out of committee, but would like to see,
at a minimum, a letter of intent adopted by the House Resources
Standing Committee that lays out some of these concerns and
specific things that the committee wants addressed.
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE further stated that the legislature is
supposed to draft laws and delegate authority to the agencies.
She asked, "If we're not clear about what it is we're delegating
and we're not clear of what our purpose is or [what our]
limitations are, then how can we complain when regulations come
out the way we didn't think they would?"
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA remarked that she was still unclear on
what impact, if any, this [bill] would have on favoring sport
[hunting] over subsistence.
Number 1463
GORDY WILLIAMS, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,
Alaska Department of Fish & Game, stated that he does not see a
conflict in the bill, since it is left up to the Board of Game.
He referred to earlier testimony, when he said this bill
wouldn't apply in areas with Tier II hunts, since the bill says
[in appropriate areas", line 5, Version B]. He suggested that
if this bill passes, public discussion would take place
regarding where these seasons would be appropriate. The board
feels that if areas already have restrictions, it would not want
to place extra pressure on them by adding a season or additional
time.
Number 1540
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER commented that the Board of Game may
already be [in the process of allowing "take-a-child-hunting"
seasons], so she was unsure of "where the groundswell of
support" came from or what the sponsor's motivation for the bill
was.
MR. KNAUSS explained that [Senator Kelly's] intent was to
establish these seasons before the beginning of school. He said
a resolution that established these seasons passed about three
to four years ago. The board acted on it for a year, but then
stopped. This bill would put it in statute.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if the current situation is that
requests to have special seasons have been made, and in
response, the Board [of Game] has sometimes allowed them.
MR. KNAUSS said he did not know.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA remarked that this is really important.
She expressed concern that the Board [of Game] is being pushed
with something that it has already been trying to make decisions
on. She indicated this bill is a statement that the board would
read as, "You're gonna do it, and you're gonna do it a little
more," rather than leaving discretion to the board.
MR. KNAUSS indicated "fish and wildlife conservation" and
Senator Kelly, for the most part, agreed on the language of the
bill. The only thing they differed on was "whether or not who
pulls the trigger." But, he said, he thought [ADF&G] was in
favor of this as well.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER stated that there is a big difference
between the administration and the Board of Game; they are
totally separate entities. She would like to know how the Board
of Game feels about this bill, she said, and asked if Mr. Knauss
had any letters from the board.
MR. KNAUSS said no.
Number 1703
MR. WILLIAMS referred to Representative Fate's comments on
clarifying the language. He mentioned changes from the original
bill [SB 72] to [Version B] regarding a change from the word
"hunt" to "take". He then referred to questions regarding an
animal that is wounded and the adult's role in such a situation;
he asked how this part of the bill would "play into this." He
indicated he did know what would happen.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN remarked that this concept is great. By
establishing a special season, however, he wondered "what kind
of insurance we have that 'Billy Joe Bob' doesn't take his
seven-year-old out with him a week ahead of schedule just to
make sure he gets his own." He said there would be no proof of
this. He went on to suggest that if a child were to need a
large-caliber gun to shoot a really big animal, the child's
father may realize the child needs assistance and, therefore,
would help out.
MR. KNAUSS indicated that adding "adult ... may only assist
child in taking big game" [lines 10-11] was one of the reasons
that the age of a child was changed to eight years.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN remarked that this is not defined. He said
it is opening a Pandora's box. He asked why an early, open,
special season is required.
MR. KNAUSS replied that the sponsor's intent was to have an
extended season, before the regular season, so that children
would not miss school. He mentioned that schools in the
Interior are starting earlier, which goes into moose-hunting
season.
REPRESENTATIVE FATE made a motion to move SB 72 [unspecified
version] out of committee with individual recommendations.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI asked if the proposed House CS [Version B, 22-
LS0084\B, Utermohle, 3/15/01] had been adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE FATE stated his belief that it had been adopted.
Number 1978
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA voiced her objection to moving the bill
out of committee. She said her family hunts and she has no
objection to taking children out hunting. However, she still
has too many questions about definitions in the bill. For
example, she does not know what "assist" means. She said she
appreciated the legal opinions and had read them carefully.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA went on to say that the bill is "well-
done" but that there is "fudging language in it in terms of
assumptions," which concerns her on the "legal side of things."
She also indicated the legislature shouldn't interfere with the
Board of Game's decision-making, especially when [the
legislature] doesn't know if these requests have been made to
the board. At this time, she concluded, she couldn't support
this bill.
Number 2034
REPRESENTATIVE FATE stated that this bill allows for the
companionship of a father and child, and educates children on
hunting as well as the value of understanding firearms and what
they can do, which is one of the arguments in committee today.
For these reasons, and for this bill's being enacted in areas
where there are conflicts with school, he said he intended to
vote for this bill.
Number 2075
CO-CHAIR SCALZI recounted concerns such as special dispensation
that came up at the meeting. He noted that issues relating to
the Board of Game included giving it too much discretion,
questions as to whether or not it had participated in ["take-a-
child-hunting" seasons], and receiving no recommendations from
the board. Another concern is whether the adult would take over
if an animal had been shot and wounded. He mentioned the issue
of "supplementing the actual education," such as an eight-year-
old shooting a "30-06." He pointed out that there are
opportunities for hunting smaller game with a smaller-caliber
rifle. But if someone brings a seven-, eight-, or nine-year-old
to hunt moose, "you're obviously going to be shooting a pretty
large-sized caliber." He also mentioned Representative
Kerttula's comments regarding the lack of clarity of definitions
in the bill.
CO-CHAIR SCALZI referred to Representative Fate's comments that
the sponsor's intent for education regarding hunting is good.
He remarked that his personal recommendations are similar to
Representative Green's. He thinks that currently there is ample
opportunity to take one's children hunting in-season by taking
the child out of school or going before school. He mentioned
that there is also other game available.
Number 2250
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Fate, Chenault, and
Stevens voted in favor of moving the bill out of committee.
Representatives Kapsner, Kerttula, and Scalzi voted against it.
Representative Green abstained from voting. [Representatives
McGuire and Masek were absent for the vote.] Therefore, HCS
CSSB 72(RES) failed to move from the House Resources Standing
Committee by a vote of 3-3.
HB 137 - RECORDS OF VETERANS
Number 2295
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced that the next order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 137, "An Act relating to records of veterans
of the armed forces; and providing for an effective date."
[Although there was a motion to adopt HB 137, the original bill,
it was already before the committee.]
Number 2319
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT, speaking as the chair of the House
Special Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs, sponsor of
HB 137, explained that the intent of HB 137 is to make the
government more efficient. Presently, veterans' separation
papers are recorded in three different state departments: the
Department of Natural Resources; the Bureau of Vital Statistics;
and the Department of Military and Veterans' Affairs. He said,
"A recording of these records is voluntary by veterans, and upon
leaving they are encouraged to have their separation papers
recorded." Representative Chenault stated that the requirement
to keep these records in separate agencies wastes government
money and is unnecessary. This legislation would eliminate the
requirement of the Bureau of Vital Statistics to maintain those
records.
CAROL CARROLL, Director, Division of Support Services,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR); Director, Administrative
Services Division, Department of Military & Veterans' Affairs
(DMVA), testified in support of HB 137. By statute, she
explained, the DNR's State Recorder's Office and the Bureau of
Vital Statistics must keep records of veterans' separation
papers. The DMVA keeps those records in the armory in
Fairbanks, as a courtesy. Ms. Carroll explained that the bill
would establish the Recorder's Office as the official place for
these records to be stored.
Number 2450
SHARON YOUNG, State Recorder, Division of Support Services,
Department of Natural Resources, testified via teleconference in
support of HB 137. She added that although keeping these
records at the Recorder's Office doesn't amount to much time
around the state, the bill would certainly help ease some of the
confusion for veterans who need access to their records, by
allowing them to go to one place to get the information.
Number 2500
REPRESENTATIVE FATE made a motion to move HB 137 out of
committee with individual recommendations and the attached zero
fiscal note. There being no objection, HB 137 was moved from
the House Resources Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 1:36 p.m.
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